Tuesday - April / May 2009 is my leave date. Only going back home for three months before taking up a consultant role in Canada for two years...the wife and I have then decided enough is enough of the transient lifestyle as the kids will be at junior school age and we are arguing where we should make home. I want to return to Aus or England she wants SA or France...will probably be SA as we both have decent businesses there, it would be the sensible decision, but not necessarily the right one !

'At least Pom is good at insults'...Thanks Saman, I take that as a compliment and in the absence of any others will cherish it dearly!..OzUKman...you are aware I am a Pom(?) and therefore have no real interest in dreaming of SA possibly avoiding a whitewash in Oz - if my nationality is not immediately apparent then the clue is in my user name...no, still not worked it out? OK it is the Pom bit...no still not worked it out...I give up!

Saman...I agree mate with the England report cards - actually quite funny the way some reports of lavishing praise on Broad despite his awful performances in the tests. Lest we not forget we lost the test series. SA should be welcomed home as heroes, but probably will not because of four bad days of cricket in ODI's...they had more than four bad days of cricket in the test series (in fact three bad days in the first test alone) and yet still came out victors - this is why test cricket will always be the greatest format of the worlds greatest sport as it is the greatest test of aligning skill and mental strength...now you guys are home, once again (and for the last time) I say well done you should be proud of your team...now let hostilities re-commence.

Saman...the atmosphere in SL was great at one test on one day when Murali beat the record. The rest of the time the atmosphere was great only because 90% of the crowd was Poms...Sorry cannot back you there mate, but still do not think that the sub continent do not want Test cricket

BigSteve...What do you have against one eyed people...is it just the people with limited eyes or the handicapped in general? Shocking (LOL). By the way I am not black.

Hypothetically Swinnger...what exactly could Symonds have done to make the obnoxious weed believe he was acting like a monkey. Was he throwing his kak at someone at a zoo, eating a banana in an unseemly way, or swinging through some trees whilst ooh-oohing in fluent primate-ese....Now, I am sorry to any monkeys who are reading this for stereotyping (after all that is in fact the source of all racism) but I am convinced that Symonds was not showing any monkey type behaviour and therefore assume the term was used with the intent of being a racial slur....until three of four days later some clever individual thought up the whole Maa Ki rubbish.

OzUKman...It matters not the colour of a monkey. As a Pom you know the connotations of the usage of the word. Think back to the 80's when bananas were waved at black soccer and rugby league players in the UK. The Croatian FA recently got fine for supporters making monkey sounds at black England U21 players, and the Italians and Russian FA's have both been severely reprimanded because their supporters did the same thing...it is common knowledge that monkey is used as derogatory term for black people as I am sure the 'obnoxious weed' knew...absolute disgrace of a man. Maa Ki my ass.

Enigma...As a non white person who has played nearly 20 years of club level of cricket (badly), I have been sledged and given it back by the bucketloads. Only once in that time has anyone ever included a racist remark in their 'sledging repertoire'....Now (as you can imagine) I do not hold back on the sledging (which is still wrong I know - unfortunately I always have an answer and a big mouth) but I have never been 'provoked' enough to make a racist comment. In fact it is plainly impossible to provoke someone to be a racist...racism is an attitude built up over years or a learnt response from your peers...Singh did not suddenly become a racist because Symonds provoked him - he was plainly one already.

Emerlander...the obnoxious little weed played the only role in the racism controversy when he called Symonds a monkey...end of story no matter how many times Indian fans try and justify his actions, Singh has proved himself time and time again to be the worlds most disgraceful living cricketer and will remain so unless Hansie is resurrected.

He_Pennypacker...not form / results - but more specifically performances. Whilst AUS are still by far the number one team in both codes, IMO their performances (Bangles aside) have not been as dominant as they were previously....you are right though it would take a continued decline in performances especially at Test level and a rapid increase in performances by England to make my comments believable rather than the optimistic chunterings of a typical Pom.

Tuesday...not sure about doing the tour Aus thing with impunity. The ratio of British tourists murdered / disappeared in Australia compared to SA is way way higher...I'll take my chances in SA where at least you get to see some 'real' touist attractions. ArrogantOz...Some good points well made, although you do tend to reiterate what most already know . PhillyB - that is all very well if you are preaching to people that have never lived there. To those of us that have, we are well aware of the racist issues in Australia. I last lived there in 2001 and the 'perceived' issue and attitude towards Greek immigrants was rife then and as for certain peoples attitudes towards Aborigines..... I am not saying that the racism is any worse than any other westernised country and certainly it is not as bad as SA, but in terms of cricket, I have certainly never been around more racist crowds...Despite all this if...it must be said that the place that I have enjoyed living the most (including the motherland) is Australia where the main cities are beautiful Oasis's in an otherwise largely desolate country...the people by and large are great though. Love their sense of humour (see ArrogantOz self deprecating humour / sarcasm in his last post - brilliant), they can certainly dish out, but appear to enjoy you giving it back (unlike the Saffa's)...also better Bar-B-Que-ers than the Saffa's (It does not matter how much you call it a Braai lads it's still a Bar-B-Que just as a poijtie is still a stew - I await the inevitable Saffa backlash with relish with relish - or in their case some Mrs Ball's Chutney !)

Prophet_Pbuh...yes mate you are right, we do all know what happens when the 'Aussies come'...apart from the last time they came to England of course. I am not sure where all this 'Bring on the Aussies' stuff that everyone is citing is coming from. Of course the tabloids in the UK will wibble on about it, but they are working class papers whose cricket knowledge is extremely limited...the broadsheets give England no chance. Obviously KP is going to say it as well...what else can he say? Well actually ladies and gentlemen we have no chance. Ummm what a morale booster that would be. I say let's concentrate on doing ourselves justice against a very good Indian side and a steadily improving WI side and then see if we can avoid a whitewash...this said with Aussie performances rapidly on the decline, improvements by the England team might see a semblance of parity restored...Either way after tipping England to win the SA test seies and lose the ODI's I will be happy if my awful results clairvoyance trend continues...England fans need to pray Flintoff stays fit and Harmison's wife does not get pregnant again (they must be the worlds most fertile couple !).

Ed...I still think SA has a bloody good ODI side and one poor series where England have had one of their 'mad moments' (as I pointed out before the tour - England are a funny lot often beating the teams we are not supposed too and getting thumped by lesser lights in ODI's) which they have now and then. IMO the SA batting line up 'is' strong, but I wonder how many other teams may have suffered at the hands of the likes of Flintoff / Harmy / Broad who have really fired...As for the bowling. Steyn and Morkel will undoubtedly come good and I hink that Philander actually has certain aspects in his technique that if allowed to flourish will become an asset, however the fact he has four levels of pace variation is irrelevant if he bowls a full toss everytime. The majority of this Saffa team I would stick with. They need experience, supporters giving the young players time to grow and one decent series win under their belts to lift confidence and get them firing...as for England 'all hail the start of another false dawn'. As is always the case a great victory is often followed by ignominious defeat. Time will tell whether KP has enough influence to keep this team together, amid a flurry of probable daft selection decisions and turn things around if times get bad....also I wonder whether the weaknesses he has in his technique against spin will become worse when 1) He plays against a team with a relevant spinner and 2) He has the added burden of captaincy to worry about?

MasterG...Ripping off tourists blatantly happens in Australia. I went on a sight seeing tour, paid good money, and they took me to see some big reddish looking rock in the middle of miles of tiny plants and sand. It was 'great' though. They took me to one side of the rock, then around the side, and even around the back. Despite the tour guide pointing out that it should have been included as one of the seven wonders of the world and that it is Australia's foremost tourist attraction, my wife and I could not help feeling that someone was laughing gleefully over a busload of tourists paying good money to see a rock....the only time I got even the slightest bit interested was when the guide tried to liven things up by telling some story about how the Aussie dogs in the region have a penchant for eating babies....By the way Tuesday...they were not black...as strange as it may seem to some not all scam artists are of a darker hue ! (Only joking - I know you were not implying that)

Apologies ---my previous comment was regarding Hick, Not NeilB, although he too may have been good at County level and at playing spin for all I know !

NeilB...Apology accepted. Great at County level where he revelled in being the biggest fish in a very small pond (Worcestershire). Could not hack the added pressure at Test level where he was quickly found out from some of the era's very good pace bowlers....Was great against spin from my recollection though.

NeilB...Blimey your description of me is like I am looking in a mirror...apart from the black bit !...Oh and the slavery bit...and of course the new SA only accepting racists bit ... I am with Maxohr 'free NeilB now' (a village somewhere will be missing it's idiot).

Tuesday...oh dear all your good work undone in one posting...although you did qualify your statements somewhat with reference to 'education'. Also they will find it equally hard to break the poverty cycle when they are denied affordable quality education / affordable quality medical care / jobs because of corporate and institutionalised racism / reasonable housing etc etc...I too might indulge as often as possible in one of lifes 'free pleasures' if I was faced with such adversity...but it is ok because it is 'unfortunate' to be born a white man in the 'new SA' and not the other way round, apparently ! I think you urgently need a prolonged stay here to get your head around it all...before you start sounding like NeilB.

NeilB...If you are 34 years old and still say things such as 'it is unfortunate to be born a white man in the new SA', then no matter how many protestations you make to the contrary, you will find it difficult to convince most people that you are not a fool...either that or your whole 34 years have been spent with your eyes closed...either way I would love to hear why 'mainly black people' find themselves in the 'current situation'...a view from the far right would be incredibly insightful.

Tuesday..another good point re the link with sport and crime. I was raised on a rough council estate in a dodgy part of the UK. If it was not for the fact that I happened to play for different football teams several nights a week I dread to think what I may have got up to !...did not think of it that way. Tuesday from SA president(ess) I say...however you would still need to convince people with limited access to education / adequate medical care that the money could not be put to a better use.

Sunith...Sssshhh...be very quiet...just think it if you have to...but never ever put the thought into anyone's mind that I may border on likeable ! My fun would be ruined on here !!! Just in case 'Pretend-a-Africans'...there I will only use that again if I feel any other public displays of warmth coming my way - which is highly unlikely !!!!

Tuesday - You make some good points. Personally I feel that the need for quotas would be eradicated if the Cricket and Rugby were made more accessible to non white kids kids in their schools. Stick it extensively on their sporting curriculum, fund the equipment and in 10-20 years you will naturally have kids who have other sporting interests other than football and unearth an extensive amount of hitherto untapped talent...it does not have to go under the moniker of quotas, call it something daft like 'sporting opportunities' or something...unfortunately SA, we need to be realistic. SA has more pressing problems such as crime, AIDS , education which need to be addressed before money can justifiably be lavished on sport, which in the grand scheme of things is pretty unimportant from a 'life' context.

NeilB...I cannot deny that work and talent are an integral factor in success, I would be foolish not to accept this. However all the figures cited would therefore seem to suggest that the black populace are either less inclined to work hard or have less talent as they are still severely under represented in SA sport / Top management / Middle Management / Universities / Private schools etc...I refuse (and I am sure more enlightened Saffa's such as Saman / Dazzler / Karma would too - cannot believe I am saying that lads !) to accept that this is the case. So what is the reason for this then? Obviously historical priviledge enabling higher education and only one race being considered for higher paid jobs has nothing to do with it in your mind (after all every white person with such a job died the moment the ANC came into power !)...and as for the issue of corporate and institutional racism, well of course that just stopped as soon as apartheid finished also...you are indeed 'unfortunate' mate -but it has little to do with being born a white man, it's more to do with the fact you are missing out on the benefits of embracing diversity like many other Saffa's are increasingly doing...Your loss and South Africa's if there are too many like you.

Tuesday...I am not knocking the fact the story illustrated by NeilB may have happened, everyone knows of such stories, but for every story told by white SA of such instances happening their are several that could be told by black people of non whites being held back. I was party to this several months ago when a black football player from the team I coach was picked to represent his Province in a tournament in Europe. When I approached a marketing manager to discuss sponsorship for this player, he asked me if there was any white players in need of sponsorship as he could not be sure where the money would end up if it was provided to a black family. I reported him to his CEO and was not even dignified with a response...my main contention with the likes of NeilB is the whole you are 'unfortunate' to be born a 'white man' in the 'new SA'...this is absolute rubbish. The Zimboks and the Proteas are still predominantly white? 80+% of top management remain white? 70% of middle management remain white? 90+% of the directors of SA top 300 JSE listed companies are still white? 80% of the countries wealth and equity are still controlled by whites? 70% of University entrants are still white (excluding correspondence Universities) and 90% of private shool kids are still white? 65% of the black population live below the poverty line...yep it really is 'unfortunate' be born white in the 'new SA'....unfortunately such an attitude is highly prevalent amongst those who love to moan whilst sipping brandy and coke in their swimming pools.

Saman...when you say where were all the England supporters after the test loss do you mean on C365? If so there is only really me who posts regularly. There have been a couple newbies recently but both basically denigrate the team. You really cannot compare the loyalty of England cricket fans to Saffa's without a huge case of tongue in cheek being involved. As for your contention I would gladly swap a test series win for the imminent whitewash in the ODI's...you are completely and utterly correct, without a second thought about it....That's why I find all this questioning Arthurs position as coach fickle to the extreme.

NeilB...what a waste of a brain cell. Of course township kids are going to prefer to play soccer. It is very often the only game available to the schools they attend. Give them the opportunity to play and excel in other sports and things will gradually change and ultimately for the better of SA sport...as for the 'unfortunately he is white in the new South Africa'...you should be absolutely ashamed. Are you sure you would really want to be part of the 60% who still live under the poverty line in SA. The overwhelming majority of whom are black. I love the he goes to a 'very good private school in JHB' comment...shame that poor white kid must be devastated he does not go to a township school, after all being white in the new South Africa is terrible (sometimes the maid does not clean their swimming pools properly)....I despair that SA will ever reach it's fullest and unbelievable potential when people like you refuse to see the wood for the trees...incredible !

MasterG...In your last post you state that If I was not 'so busy jumping on the SA fans are fickle bandwagon'...I may have noticed you were not calling for 'Arthur to be sacked' - so what exactly do these words from your 8.32 post mean? "Does anyone else feel that maybe it wouldn't be such a disaster if Mickey Arthur were to take up one of these county offers? Personally, I'd feel much more confident going into the Australia series with Kepler Wessels as coach". I agree you have not specifically stated you want him sacked, but you leave no doubt that you were prefer someone else to be coach....seems you and Saman are cut from the same fickle cloth that means a superb series win is completely forgotten after a couple of defeats in the 50 over format.

Heboric...many apologies mate for stating that SA fans can be somewhat fickle. I can see exactly how you could have interpreted that as 'verging on racism'...after all the word 'fickle' has all sorts of racist connotations. Many thanks for also using the struggle words. As a non white 'Pom' I can assure you they are very dear to me and I try to infuse as many of them into my daily language as possible, although my constant vigil outside Jacob Zuma's courtroom means that sometimes I forget. MasterG...On the subject of being fickle (apologies Heboric) do you really want Arthur to go? Why? He has just turned around your test team?! Are you one of these saffa's who still believe that test cricket is of secondary importance to the ODI's ? Perhaps you just have a short memory....if so England 'won' the test series 2-1 and got thumped in the ODI's. I would have gladly accepted this at the start of the tour.

Heboric...Umm you have to speculate whether the attendance (still not a sell out) would have been so high if tickets did not go on sale prior to the 1st Aussie game when the Zimboks lost the chance to win the tri-nations. It would have been emptier than a Proteas test match.

Saman...sorry my mistake I just thought your comment ' I don't care about cricket at the moment, rugby is where it's at', meant that you did not care about cricket at the moment because rugby is where it's at. Although now you have explained properly I concede that you do care about cricket...silly me for missing the obvious clues.

Shifter...if you think the English press are giving all the credit to only KP you plainly do not read much English press...Harmison / Flintoff are being darling-ed much more than KP...Saman...true to form, SA loses a couple of ODI's and you turn your back on them...I wonder what it is that makes Saffa's so fickle? Doubtless you will be back after their next decent win, just as you now love the Zimboks again. SA sport has always had a proud and tenacious set of players, but the supporters by and large are the world's most disloyal.

xspear...Just to clarify that I was not serious re: the quotas issue in the England squad ! Although I am sure your reply was lighthearted. We will always have our fair compliment of players with a 'more distant hue' because of the fact that approximately 50% of the UK populace originates from different lands (including myself, father from Trinidad), such is the allure our mud has to offer. 20% are black / Indian / Pakistani with the other 30% being SA cricketers trying to get on a Kolpak and garner a better life...or so it would seem from the amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth that the issue has induced over the months on this very forum....Look forward to a CAPS LOCK FRENZY coming to a forum near you soon, when a certain Saffa reads this (the rest of you - I only jest)...As for Smith being out. That's one early wicket we cannot rely on (I'll say it for you Saffa's - Yes I have got a short memory !)...seriously though that is a huge (let it go Tuesday !) loss to the Saffas at such a crucial conjecture in the series. I wonder whether appointing a captain who has lost all relevance is the best move. Is it not a bit like Vaughan having to cope with his own dire form which only adds to his problems captaining a side ? Perhaps Kallis can come good again with the extra pressure ?

Xspear...KP''s / The selectors preference for Patel over Swann is a quota issue...when was the last time England fielded an all white side ?! I tell you if the ECB do not stop this policy we are all going to hell in a handcart and the moment we lose one game we will all start blaming our non white players...Quotas Out ! (NB: For the less enlighted forum dwellers, the sort who whack the caps lock button on the merest hint of the word 'quotas' - the entirety of this post is a joke)...For Lungz...L O M8, soz I not rite in ur lang, my brainz not fink rite.

Lungz...O I C its cos yoos impatient (soz cud not fink of n abb for impatient) ...the folly of yoof will be the end of the English language as we all drift into the abyss of text speak....

Dazzler...yep the 'Duminy' comment was always going to be responded to by some more cranially challenged folk with a the caps lock key pressed firmly down ! ...Perhaps one day sarcasm will filter through to such people, although I would rather hold my breath about you giving KP some overdue credit first !...

ED...I would echo your sentiments to some extent re KP, however I think Collingwood may have achieved better results against NZ if he had Flintoff and Harmison at his disposal.

Saman...re: Duminy...we will never find out if Duminy is the part as another poor score will assign him ever more to the 'quota bin'.

Lungz...u cud tri to rite Eng still...I fink all fones do it. Anyway 83 all out was completely unexpected. I agree with the anti KP brigade inasmuch that he has done nothing spectacular except for a century at the Oval and virtually another in the first ODI. Some might say putting his foot down on the Harmison issue, getting the best out of Flintoff and taking Broad from nothing (if ever a player has flourished by having the captain place confidence in him...moving him from 1st or second change bit part player to opening seems to have done wonders for him) as quite good too...Whilst I hate Smith for being the most arrogant person on earth I was the first to accept his performance(s) in the tests as inspired...I wonder why the absolute refusal to accept good performances from KP?...either way who cares - a good performance all round by the Poms and whilst the main job is already done in the tests I am sure someone like Smith will want to avoid further embarrassment against a poor Pom ODI side.

Ed...LOL (Get yer coat mate - taxi for Ed). I withdraw my 220/230 prediction. I wonder if KP is the most innovative captain ever...cancel out the light issue by ensuring the chase is so small that the game is over before it gets dark...genius ! As for Duminy / Gibbs they are plainly quotas. Give all the other another chance tho' obviously...Hey Tuesday?

I would not worry too much...that was a terrific toss to win and I still back SA to make full use of bowling under the lights as England did on Friday...220/230 will be very competitive and SA should get that easily. Tuesday...Are you sure you are not a child of 1980's South Africa.

Enigma...re: the Trescothick mint issue. Sounds like a load of old 'humbug' to me ! ...I'll get my coat.

Yeah Dazzler but there is a huge difference between you a some of the less enlightened of SA...You did not want Jacobs playing because you perceived his playing abilities to be 'inadequate' and were 'happy' to be proved wrong - nothing to do with colour. I feel sorry for non white SA cricketers. The obvious 'potential' of some of these players is only allowed to flourish under intense pressure and public scrutiny making it doubly hard for such players to achieve...they either come in and perform straight away or the 'paying public' (or a significant proportion of it) assign them forever more to the quota bin which can do nothing for morale. It is possibly no coincidence that the recent players who were assigned by some to the quota bin (on this very forum - and not by yourself I hasten to add) before the tour (Amla / Prince) are the sort of players whose mental toughness is one of the primary facets of their game. Both were widely assessed as quotas behind the Boerewors curtain , especially after Amla's start to his test career and Prince's form dip prior to England - both came through it and are now non quotas ...I remember you saying once that the worst racism you had seen was in England towards Asians, I agree I was very lucky to be born a coloured man in England and not Asian, however for some reason sport seems to bypass racism in UK (except in Yorkshire backwaters !) and we get players like Monty being supported beyond belief. Panesar is not and will not ever be the greatest spinner in the world...however he will achieve a 'decent test player status' as much because of the groundswell of public affection which will allow his potential to flourish as anything else...one day my friend they same will happen in SA.

Dazzler...I agree with your Jacobs scenario (although I have no idea who he is...is he the little(ish) bloke who plays for Sharks? I met such a bloke once at a corporate event once and his name was Adi - lovely fella) ...in terms of cricket, the same goes for Amla and Prince, who were cited by the usual suspects on this very forum as being quota's before scoring 7 million runs between them in the test series....I ask repeatedly on this forum who exactly the quota players were in the last test series and no saffa can ever answer, despite the fact that before the series these two great players were dismissed as quotas by many...it is amazing how a piece of leather smacking consistently off the middle of a piece of wood and skipping like a farting billiard ball over a boundary, can change prejudice so easily...I bet Mr Mandela is wondering why he had to struggle so much ?! - Blimey mate - we are agreeing on stuff ! LOL !

Shifter...everything you write reeks of you being a fervent follower of the 'it's because of quotas brigade'...I ask you a couple of questions 1) Who in the Proteas side that won the test series was not picked purely on merit 2) If all the players in the test side were picked on merit can we not presume that the ODI side was too? 3) If SA had won and Philander had made a fifty would he still be a quota ?... As for De-Villiers, you have in no way implied this in your previous post, but the number of people who have said to me over the last couple of days that 'this is what happens when you pick a transformation coach' is shocking. You are right, the Zimboks sudden fall from grace could be tactical...I am sure that such tactical errors are not confined purely to non whites...It is a dream of mine that one day the majority of Saffa's will just say 'we lost' congratulate the other team and that will be that...instead of it was because a quota player messed up.

MasterG...The English FA have made no such decision not to play 'residency' players unofficial or otherwise, but the immigration rules stop this from happening. For instance for a non EU player to ply his trade in England he must have played 75% of the games that his international team has played in the previous 12-18 months (depending on the number of games played by that country). FIFA rules then state that any player who has played for a country from U18 upwards cannot play for another country...as such the vast majority of established 'residency' players cannot play for England anyway as the overwhelming majority have played international football...this will probably change with the whole host of EU players currently coming through the youth systems of clubs (especially the likes of Arsenal where only 15% of the entire squad including youth team players are English) finally becoming Premiership quality...basically the only player who was considered in terms of residency was Carlo Cudicini (married an English girl and never played for Italy) however as he was not even first choice at club level it was obviously never going to materialise...unlike cricket, the various football associations seem to have pretty stringent rules which prevent the unequal playing field of a Kolpak situation

...as usual a couple of defeats for the Proteas and the Zimboks and the 'quotas' issue raises it's head again....I still wonder which Saffa in the Proteas team that humbled England (and me !) in the test series was a quota - no one ever seems to be able to answer. As for Vern. He had a poor game and as such will always be labelled a 'quota' no matter what, after all, any non white player will have to hit 20 consecutive centuries and take 20 five-fers before 'some' in SA will accept their inclusion in the team as meritous...several of the white players in the SA team on Friday night also played poorly. I wonder if they were only selected because they are white? Either way the only thing that will always remain constant is 'certain' SA fans blaming supposed quota players for every defeat, even if it was a relatively meaningless ODI in which it has to be said that England flourished on the back of batting first / a couple of decisions that went there way / and a poor collective performance by SA....but no, none of that matters it was because of 'quotas'. I wonder if SA fans will ever accept defeat because they just lost rather than insisting their supposed quota players 'lost it for them'? We can only hope - perhaps the next generation of SA supporters will address the matter without such prejudice.

Dhillon...I love the irony when you request people to address you in English. When is was schooled many moons ago 'u' was you , 'becos' was because and 'ur' was your. 'Statemens' also had a secondary 't' at the end of the word before the 's'...perhaps I am just not 'down with the kids' enough to understand that text speak is now the preferred parlance of the younger generation...

MasterG...Do England have a chance in the ODI's...in a word 'no'. I said even in the run up to the test series that England would get beaten in the ODI's by the side who 'I' feel are the best in the world at this format of the game and have been consistently good for many a season....however a couple of factors must be weighed into my prediction 1) I thought we would win the Test series - it was not bravado, I genuinely thought that...so I am not the worlds best pundit ! 2) ODI's still have something of a lottery about them. I can see England winning one...if they then fluke another, it get's interesting 3) England have had a strange habit in recent years of winning ODI series against teams who are plainly better than them Australia / India / Sri Lanka and losing to supposed lesser teams - so you cannot completely write them off. 4) Who really gives a damn. We lost the test - job done for South Africa. I just hope they show the same 'job done' complacency as they did at the Oval, although I am sure there is not one Saffa on here who will be 'too' gutted if they lose - as I said the main job is done and deservedly dusted....for me nothing more than a semblance of pride will be restored if we win the series, but the main wounds will still need a lot of licking !

Re: Lungz post...is anybody else worried that the English language is eventually going to completely slip into 'text speak' ?....soon schools will just hand out a cell phone instead of books during English lessons. Perhaps it's just the way of the world to abbreviate everything these days...you wait sooner or later there will be a format of cricket which only lasts about three hours, where the bowlers chucks it as fast as they can and batsmen just try and whack the seam out of the ball on every delivery...it will happen mark my words...and less enlightened people will watch it and pretend it is important.

Tuesday...and the vast majority were not. You are very sensitive about the settler moniker...I wonder why?

The whole 'Smith / KP is better thing' is rubbish if you ask me...Smith has been South African Captain for several years and has finally broken his away duck against a team of note (or used to be !) and his average (void of the Bangers skew) is slighlty lower than KP's...however Smith is an opener where it is more difficult to get runs than a player who comes in at number four when theoretically the ball is older and more bowling from second change (unless you are England at 11-3 !). Also who would you want to place your house upon to bat out say 60-70 overs under pressure KP or Smith ?...Although there are still many years to go for both players I think even a Pom like me would have to concede that Smith has more than an edge over KP in terms of general worth to a team, overall arrogance and obesity.

I like these 'KP will be remembered for ...' that all the settlers wax lyrical with...From an English perspective he will be remembered as a great cricketer who had an option to play for England because of his English blood and chose to do so. Very simple really. I think years of isolation may have made the settlers so narrow minded that they either forget KP is half English or refuse to accept that there are other countries outside of South Africa despite the fact that the vast majority of their Rugby / Cricket players (except Ntini) are very recent descendants of England / Holland / India...with several no Saffa heritage Zimbo's thrown in for good measure...good teams tho'.

Saman...check your calculations re: Smith. You are making yourself look silly (now I know why you thought a pint in the UK is 10 pounds - you cannot count). I also wonder if you have included the Bangladesh factor that Smith benefits from annually. Toothchipper...I can see you have been away a fair while. I've already congratulated the Saffa's on their worthy victory many times...well done to you though.

Saman...the standard of living for the top 10% of SA is brilliant compared to England. However most Saffa's, especially the white ones, fail to think about the 60 - 70% of Saffa's still living below the poverty line. The standard of living for these people is absolutely dreadful in SA compared to the bottom 60 - 70% of society in the UK....I wonder if all Saffa's will always have this 'us' (forgetting the 'them') mentaility when citing things such as the 'standard of living' ... before emigrating to France / UK / Australia etc etc because of aspects of 'living' conditions such as crime / unemployment etc...I doubt it...either way I like living in SA but recognize I am very fortunate to be able to afford the standard of living that Saman talks about.

Dazzler...Good point, well made. It is a shame that much of the good work is being undone. Saman...I do not think that T20 should be in the olympics. Recently the underwater Hockey federation made an application to the olympic committee for inclusion in the 2012 games and were turned down as the ridiculous nature of the sport did not 'lend itself to the olympic spirit'...I presume T20 would be turned down for the exact same reason....However if it were included I cannot see why a team from China winning it would be any more or less preferable to an established cricket nation winning it. I am not sure why Tyers and yourself would consider that a 'travesty'. I would personally say 'well done China you are gold medallists at Pyjama Baseball'.

Angelina69 - I am sure all 'da' boys 'wud' give you a big welcome. 'Sum' of the girls like Tuesday and Crickchick might get jealous though...they are very territorial. Dazzler...despite the corruption which is endemic in most African governments to some extent, the ANC are still infinitely a far better option than the pure evil of the previous government.

Tuesday...In Larwood's time it was exclusively public schoolboys (only in the 60's with a few Yorkeshiremen like Truman bucking the trends). I agree Larwood was from the mine. The mine his family owned !

Karma...well done. Tuesday / Karma...The funding from the UK government is miniscule. Luckily all these daft 'three week' olympic sports get bags loads of cash off the back of our Lotto....Actually turned out to be a good idea (despite my initial misgivings) ensuring that some good comes from the national gambling habit....Very little of it of it goes to prof sports though, which is a shame as an investment in the grass roots of cricket and Rugby (no matter how ridiculous the sport) or more specifically bringing it to inner city schools that do not play it, might pay dividends long term. At present both forms of the game are innundated with public schoolboy types, thus meaning we miss out on the potential from the poorer areas. I personally think that this is 'one' of the reasons why the Aussies do so well. In my time there the class system that pervades English sport just did not seem so apparent and was not a restriction on who tends to play what sport...I could be wrong though as I was not involved with sport over there.

Dazzler...we will see if Zuma is convicted or not. I just do not like to see C365 used as a vehicle for mere innuendo rather than fact in much the same way as the four English rugby players were categorized by certain settlers as rapists only for the case to be laughed out of the pre - trial hearing. Racism no...just a basic legal premise...when you are older I will explain - bless. Can't you stick to boasting about drink driving rather than trying to converse with adults.

I wonder if certain people have been living in a time capsule for the last three years if that is the first time they have heard the Ponting / Dwarf joke (It used to be Vaughan / Ponting)....if so England have just beaten both the 'settlers (and Ntini)' in 'settlerland' and The Aussies in the Ashes !...Great days...As for Jacob Zuma being corrupt ? What exactly has he been convicted of? Some people will not be truly content until Steve Hofmeyr is president of SA !

MasterG ...the reason why there is relatively little chirping regarding the SA/ENG T20 and ODI's is very simple...they are just not that important. Nope...the Saffa's tour to England was a success regardless of what happens in the ODI's (I will not even bother mentioning the pyjama basaeball). Test cricket is where it 'really' matters and although it is 'nice' to win ODI's, they have already passed the 'real' test with aplomb....either way they will stuff England (weather permitting) perhaps with a whitewash as they are an excellent one day side. Probably the best in the World considering Aussie performances in both formats of the game are on the wane.

Girl fight !...crickchick and Tuesday...Girl fight !

Drizzler...I see what you have done there...a cunning play on words changing Pretoria to 'pretty-oria' - well done that is brilliant ! Heboric - I presume you just like to support a winning side then ?!

Tumo...any spinner has got to be better than Harris. It was hilarious listening to the commentators talking about him yesterday. Even Pollock could not find one positive thing to say about him. The best he could come up with is that he 'tries hard'.

Photon...well that's two then. Drizzler...I would not read too much into the defeat at the 'Oval' - dead rubbers are always hard for the team who have already won a series. I think you will put up a good show against an Aussie team whose performances are on the wane...all in all the Saffa's impressed me very much, especially the batsmen...When the 'real' Kallis comes back it is a top 6 I rate more highly than the Aussies. Ultimately their superior bowling and a spinner will see the Aussie's home, but it will a lot closer than usual and if the Saffa's can get their noses in front who knows?...but hey what do I know I tipped England to win !

Crimson...I said 'Pommie and Dutch Settlers (and Ntini)' - not just Dutch Settlers. I hope that clarifies it for you. Surely the word 'Settlers' would not upset you, it is far nicer than the pretend-a-africans moniker that made soft (cage fighting) souls like Dazzler incandescent with rage and bubble with such emotion ...Well done England in the final test. The team looked more balanced - but you cannot really tell when it was obvious that half the settlers had one eye on the plane home...I think it may have been very different if it meant something. Harmy bowled well though...And so to India for a mini series just before Xmas. Apart from Pakistan, the absolute worst place I have ever had to watch England. Perhaps just one test this time....and now predictions for the ODI's - I just hope we win one !...however even if we win 5-0 the SA tour has been a failure for us. It would be nice to win but we have been outfought in the main event and that's all that matters...unless of course you are Kiwi who took great delight in gloating on here after NZ's ODI success, even after his team had been thumped home and away in the tests.

HE_Pennypacker...do not get me wrong mate, the Aussies are still 'the' team to beat. However, I am talking about performances not results. The performances have not been as dominant as in previous years. Whilst I think the Pommie and Dutch settlers (and Ntini) will give you a great series you will ultimately come out on top.

Shifter...Although I do not think the Saffa's have bowled badly at all, I have to agree with you that the English batsmen got themselves out to some very ordinary stuff at times...But then again both Prince and McKenzie have got out when chasing nothing balls in the last test...The difference being England did it when it most matters and SA have only thrown wickets away in the dead rubber.

I can just envisage the media headlines relating to Tuesday / Arrogant's assertions relating to Oz beating England in the next Ashes - it would go something like this... "Tuesday and Arrogant in state the bloody obvious shocker !" Will they beat the Saffa's though? With the Aussie performances on the slide and SA being one spinner away from being a great side, I am sure it will be a great series.

Suzieq...Sorry mate I cannot agree. If that was England's bowlers trying in the first test (2nd innings) then they should be ashamed of themselves. The body language and bickering in the field was pathetic and it was the first time I had seen Vaughan completely run out of ideas at how to lift a team...batsmen I have no doubt they are trying but all of them have been exposed with regularity (with the possible exception of KP) when the pressure has really been applied. The collective fight seen by the Saffa's was simply not within us apart from 1 (I repeat 1) Colly innings.

Ed...alec's post has to be the greatest '1st post' ever. I hope he sticks around he could be C365 very own 'village idiot' and ultimately a legend like Alumrock.

Suzieq...it must have been some very long days for you if you never miss a ball when England are bowling considering the woeful efforts in the first two tests !